Fintech Fridays EP63: From Angel Investor to Change-Maker: Investing with Impact

About NCFA Canada | Craig Asano | October 21, 2024

FF EP63 Marcia Dawood

EP63:  From Angel Investor to Change-Maker: Investing with Impact

Featured Guest: 

MARCIA DAWOOD, Angel Investor, Advisor, Podcast Host, Author (LinkedIn)

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About this episode

In this episode of Fintech Fridays, host Craig Asano sits down with Marcia Dawood, an influential angel investor, author, and advisor who serves on the SEC’s Small Business Capital Formation Advisory Committee. Marcia shares her journey from her first angel investing meeting to becoming a key figure in the industry, supporting over 50 early-stage companies. The conversation dives into the differences between angel investing and venture capital, strategies for successful investments, and the evolving landscape of early-stage investing. Marcia also discusses her new book, Do Good While Doing Well, which guides readers through the balance of achieving financial returns while making a positive impact. Tune in to hear expert insights, the importance of fostering diverse investment ecosystems, and how new investors can start their journey with confidence. Enjoy!!

Duration:  57 mins

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Fintech Friday Transcript of Episode 63:

MARCIA DAWOOD, Angel Investor, Advisor, Podcast Host, Author (LinkedIn)

Intro: Welcome to fintech Friday’s a weekly podcast brought to you by the National Crowdfunding and Fintech Association of Canada and partners. Covering all things fintech, blockchain, AI and alternative finance.

 

Craig Asano:  My name’s Craig Asano, the founder and CEO of NCFA Canada, welcoming you to season 4 of Fintech Fridays. Today is episode 63. It’s a weekly podcast brought to you by NCFA and Partners where we sit down with the incredible people in the Fintech and funding community and talk about their journey, their exciting projects, innovations, the latest industry trends and developments, all from their perspective. So today, we have an amazing guest with us today. It’s Marcia Dawood.  She’s an angel investor, adviser, podcast host, author, and more. If all that wasn’t enough, she is the leading early-stage investor who serves on the SEC’s Small Business Capital Formation Advisory Committee. She’s a venture partner with Mindshift Capital, a member of Golden Seeds. She’s also the chair of the Angel Capital Association of the US, which is, like I said, global professional angel investor society. And she’s recently published a book, which we’re gonna get into today, which is awesome.  A book is called do good while doing well, which is a guide for investing, for impact, financial returns, and happiness and bringing the balance of all those things together. She’s, she was an associate producer of an award-winning documentary, which I haven’t seen. Shame on me. I am going to watch it, Marsha. It’s called Show Her the Money, so, it’s something to also look forward to where she shares her insights on investing and entrepreneurship, and she’s podcast host, the Angel Next Door podcast and the TEDx speaker.  She also walks the walk as we see, and in her bio has, confirmed that she’s invested in over 50 early stage companies and funds, so she’s committed to expanding, support for diverse companies that overcome, you know, big problems and really wants to accelerate positive change and do good in the world, and hope hopefully, everyone else can as well. So she’s extremely passionate about these topics, so we’re really looking forward to exciting, discussion today. And, previously, her background is in sales and marketing operations, at Kaplan Education, and she’s got an MBA from the University of North Carolina where she currently resides. So, Marsha, thanks so much for joining us today to share your time, knowledge, and experience. Welcome to the show.

 

Marcia Dawood:  Well, thanks so much for having me, Craig.

 

Craig Asano:  So we’ve got a laundry list of topics we want go through here. So I think we’ll just get into a little bit about your background and journey about how you got involved into angel investing and entrepreneurship, and, we’ll start there.

 

Marcia Dawood:  Sure. So in 2012, I was invited to an angel investing meeting, and I remember asking, what’s angel investing?

I’ve known nothing about that. And I went to my first meeting. I saw a couple of local entrepreneurs, talk about their companies and the things that they were building, and I was just totally fascinated at what was going on right in my own backyard. I was living in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at the time, and I just thought, wow. This is really cool.  I had no idea. I felt a little bit like I had been living under a rock. And then, went to a couple more meetings and started to realize, hey. This is something that I really enjoy. I enjoy getting to know the other people in the group. I enjoy, learning about all these different companies and technologies and innovations that are happening in the world. And from there, I ended up living in 5 different cities over a 10 year period, including Pittsburgh, New York, San Francisco, Dallas, and Charlotte. So I saw a lot of different ecosystems. I became a member of the board of the Angel Capital Association and went on to chair the board 2021 through 2023, and then ended up on this, Securities and Exchange Commission advisory committee, which so it’s been a really cool, interesting journey seeing a lot of different ways to invest. And I thought, you know what?

We have to get this awareness problem to let everyone know that this is something that if they want to, they can participate in it. So that’s what led me to all the things, the book, the podcast, all that. And and that’s 5 cities you were saying. There’s something about, those that that are lifelong learners that just they move around. They’re very global or or, you know, inter inter, within the US and the various states.

But what why did what made you move, or what was the impetus for that? Yeah. Well, my husband is a CFO, so, the opportunities just kind of kept coming up in these various places. And, you know, a lot of times, it was with the same company and sometimes with a new company. But, that really gave me an opportunity because I already knew about Angel Investing to learn about what was going on in New York versus Pittsburgh, what was going on in, Silicon Valley versus Dallas.  And so I just found that really fascinating to I mean, there’s entrepreneurs and startups scenes in every city and every town. And a lot of times people don’t even know what’s happening in their own backyard. And I thought, you know, I think it would be really cool to start to get more people just to be aware and learn about it so that they can be involved too.

 

Craig Asano:  Do you have a favorite ecosystem that just sort of, popped out? They always ask this question and, you know, I’ve done a lot of travel, many countries.  I’ve lived in 6 and have been to 30+ and it’s the first question everybody asks. What’s your favorite? Do you have one?

 

Marcia Dawood:  You know, they’re all so different, and, I thought that, oh, if I live in Silicon Valley, you know, I’ll be like the elite of the elite. Right?  But there are really cool entrepreneurs everywhere. So I was really surprised at how interesting the ecosystem is in Pittsburgh. And I wouldn’t have thought before I knew anything about angel investing, I would not have thought that Pittsburgh was the place I would find some really cool entrepreneurs and things that are going on. But think about it. A lot of places that have these really amazing universities, like Pittsburgh has Carnegie Mellon, University of Pittsburgh, you know, they’re developing technology a lot of times in these universities that are then spun out into start up companies.

And I didn’t really understand that or know much about it before I learned about angel investing. So I just I think it’s just fascinating, and I love watching what people the ideas that people come up with. Sometimes I see it, and I’m like, oh my gosh. I would have never even thought you could have that or do that or whatever it is that they’re creating, and I’m just always amazed.

 

Craig Asano:  Amazing.  I could feel the energy coming off the screen as it were here, but Pittsburgh has some good Canadian hockey players out there, Sydney Crosby on the Penguins. So we’re all about that. But, from a vesting thesis perspective, you know, how do you choose? How do you focus, or do you sort of run with what the group is sort of presenting and saying? Or do you have a certain type of company you’re looking for?

 

Marcia Dawood:  You know what? That is such a great question. And when I started Angel Investing, I did not have a thesis. I didn’t even know what a thesis was. I wish I’d had a thesis.

 

So in writing the book, I really wanted to kind of hone in on that because I had a little bit of what I call in the book shiny halo syndrome. Meaning, I was like, squirrel. That looks good. That looks good. And I really didn’t have a strategy.  That’s not the way to do this. You should really be thinking about what do you care about, what do you wanna invest in, how much money you’re gonna put, like, have a plan. Right? So in the book, I walk people through, like, a lot about that plan because I wish I’d had that. So now when I think about a thesis or strategy, I wanna think about, you know, what are the things I care about?

How much money do I have to invest? And if I you know, it ebbs and flows. You know, sometimes you might have a little bit more. Sometimes you might have a little bit less. It all does depend a little bit on the liquidity of the companies.

Is there, you know, are there exits? You know, after you’re in this for a couple years, you will start to see exits. I know that I thought, wow. It just it does take a little while, but then all of a sudden, you know, I had some that came through in 2020 that was exciting, and I talk about that in the book too. So it it kind of ebbs and flows, and I think that it’s just a matter of, like, putting what you care about and your, your investment strategy, not just your investment strategy within the asset class of in of, early stage investing or angel investing, but, also, how does it fit in with your overall investment thesis, your retirement accounts, your, you know, saving for your kid’s college?

You know, all of those things are part of your entire investment thesis. And we always say at the Angel Capital Association, when you’re gonna invest in an alternative assets, which includes angel investing, you really only wanna put maybe 5 or 10%, a small portion of your investable assets into that type of an asset class and then, you know, really have a diversified portfolio, and that’s what a lot of financial planners will, you know, talk to you about too.

 

Craig Asano:  Smart. I can, well, we can hear your CFO’s husband’s strategy coming through. Very sensible and smart.  So when we sort of zooming out a little bit from angel investing in the US, I mean, we have an angel investing ecosystem here in Canada. How would you say from your perspective that they’re different, or what are the similarities, or what does the landscape in the US look like, and how different is it from here in Canada?

 

Marcia Dawood:  Yeah. I think that, like I said, there’s entrepreneurs in every city, in every town. I did end up talking to, a group of people in Africa and, they actually said to me, well, all roads lead to Delaware.  And so I kind of think in some cases, it is easier, and a lot of startup companies want to end up in the US. So if you’re in Canada, you’re in Europe, Africa, you know, they’re, US investors are we’re a little gun shy to invest outside of the country. And a lot of that has to do with all of our tax laws, the IRS, blah blah blah. So, you know but like I said, there’s amazing innovation that’s happening. And, actually, I’ve had I’ve talked to entrepreneurs here in Canada who have told me that there are times depending on where they live where they could get, you know, credits, tax credits for their R and D, their research and development.

There are places in Canada that are very entrepreneurial friendly. And so sometimes you may even see, an entrepreneur go to Canada to get started, and then they may end up back in the US or somebody from Canada might come. So I think there’s a lot of very friendly, cross borders going on, especially with Canada since we’re so close. But I have heard some really amazing entrepreneurial stories coming out of Canada. So you guys have a lot going on too, which is really cool.

 

Craig Asano:  The there’s definitely a lot going on, but it’s on a smaller scale. Hopefully, it’s growing. Everybody wants their ecosystems to grow. So, we’re still hand in glove with the states. I mean, 70% of our trade goes back and forth.

We’re you know, we’ve been partners for years, and I think from an investment perspective, you know, at least for accredited investors, that capital can move across borders a lot easily. So it’s all legally possible, and I think the technology is enabling more of that, not just to track and, you know, sort of distribute and display the investments and the opportunities, but the regulations are sort of slowly, catching up in that regard. I know we have a couple of questions later on in the show. We’ll you know, we can touch upon that. But, one of the questions that often pops up, through my own journey here is through companies looking for early stage capital.

You know, should they how did they approach, taking angel investment capital versus, say, a venture capital, you know, VC capital? What are the differences? We’ve heard a lot of different sort of versions over the years. What your view?

 

Marcia Dawood:  So the number one thing that’s different between an angel investor and a venture capitalist is angels invest with their own money.  So they’re writing a check out of their own checkbook, and a venture capitalist has usually a fund where they have investors that invest in that fund, and then they make their investment decisions based on their investment thesis. So those are the 2 kind of biggest things. I actually several about 2 years ago, I did a rap battle. I don’t usually talk about this too much, but it is on my website. I did a rap battle of an angel investor versus a venture capitalist, and I go through all of the differences between the 2.

So if you wanna put that in the show notes, you’re welcome to do that. It’s kind of a 3 minute education on, angel investors versus venture capitalists.

 

Craig Asano:  That’s awesome. We’re definitely gonna dig that one up and put in the show notes.

 

Marcia Dawood:  Totally. But I guess I’d say, you know, when a company is first thinking about taking investment, I think that is the most critical time. And to really not just think about, oh, my gosh. I I’ve heard so many founders. They’re like, oh, my gosh.

I need money. I need I need to, you know, get something so that I can build the product so that I can show that I have traction so I can get more money. And it’s like it’s a little bit of a rat race. And I really think if entrepreneurs just took a took a breath and said, hey. What is it that I need not just now, but what am I gonna need 6 months from now, a year from now, 2 years, 5 years from now?

And really started to plot that out about what are the milestones I’m gonna need to hit, how am I gonna develop my product or service or whatever they’re doing, And then how am I gonna get to that exit? Now when you go back to start to talk to investors, they have a a pathway, a plan that at least has been talked about, thought out as opposed to this, like, hurry up. I need money. Oh my gosh. I need to get to the next, you know, like, the next milestone, next milestone because it is like a marathon.

And a lot of times, I feel like founders are, like, sprinting their way to the next place. But really thinking about that, in advance, but also building those relationships with potential investors way before you need money. Because I’ve had too many people come up to me and say, hey. You know, we see you’re an investor. We’d like you to invest in our company.

Well, I don’t know you. I don’t have any idea what you’re building. I don’t know what you’ve worked on in the past, but, you know, in some cases, angels will be involved with a company or watch a company for sometimes months or even years before they’ll make an investment. I know that we did that, at Mindshift Capital with a couple of different companies. We were I know that we did that, at Mindshift Capital with a couple of different companies.

We were watching, kind of seeing how they were operating, what were the milestones they were hitting, and then getting to a point where we would invest. So I always encourage, entrepreneurs to do that. In fact, I did write an article for Fast Company talking about this. We can put that in the show notes too for people. Cool.

 

Craig Asano:  Yeah. That’s great advice. Being more strategic, and it’s not a sprint. It it’s a journey.  Are there any other, tips or advice, or what are some of the common errors or challenges that you think would be, you know, great insight for someone listening to the show here today?

 

Marcia Dawood:  So I think sometimes I’ll see companies that will say, you know what? I really, I need the money. I need to do this. I need to like, right now.  And if if they just took a little bit more time, really thought through all of the things that they wanted to do, how they were gonna do it, I think that they would get farther and still be able to show the progress and really be able to use the best practices, not just of what they’re learning about, but really get a network of the other entrepreneurs that are out there. I find that entrepreneurs will really help each other. I know everybody’s busy and they’re all trying, like, heads down to do that kind of the same thing. But that entrepreneurial network can be so helpful because, you know, who somebody who might not be the right investor for one company could be the right investor for another company. And if you know each other and you’re really able to kind of use what you’re doing, really think strategically about how you’re gonna get there and be able to let people know.

You know, put it out there. I see too many entrepreneurs that say, oh, I don’t wanna tell anybody yet what I’m doing because I need to build it. So then they’ll see it, and it’ll be beautiful, and everybody will love it. And I think to myself, okay, but We need to kind of see the process along the way, and we wanna see the journey. So don’t be afraid to talk about it.

 

Craig Asano:  I think that’s great advice. I think you’re you’re absolutely right. The the days of being in the basement and hiding and waiting for the gold ribbon, the gold standard, it’s all done. It’s more, you know, iterative, and those relationships are key. So I think, you know, really, one of the benefits of doing a show like today and getting this discussion out there is, you know, fostering just sparking the initial, relationship and the idea to go cross border, connect with some entrepreneurs, hopefully some investors, and start that journey, be more strategic.

 

Marcia Dawood:  So I think those are great, you know, great, advice for any entrepreneur. It doesn’t matter where they are in the world. So, from a angel investing per perspective, you know, what has been, you know, most rewarding for you or challenging? You know, you can take that kind of question from both sides. You know, what has it been like?

You’ve been you’ve been at it for many years, and so, you know, you you’re in the prime as an angel investor. So what has it been like for you? Yeah. I think that, like, probably one of the real rewards has been just getting to see a little bit behind the curtain. Like, what’s really getting worked on out there?

What are the innovations that we really wanna see? Because I know I am always amazed at the type of things entrepreneurs are working on. And I think to myself, oh my gosh, I would have never thought of that myself. So that’s neat. I also think it is super rewarding to be able to meet so many different types of people.

 

I mean, the entrepreneurs are doing amazing things, and I love meeting them, but also meeting the other investors, meeting the other people that are either in an angel group, or a fund, or just in the overall ecosystem, I would’ve I met people that I would’ve never met in my corporate life, who were working in other corporate lives. And that intersection of coming together, I just I think that’s really cool. And while I was still working corporate world, I it actually angel investing kind of helped open my eyes to, hey. I now am looking at these startup companies as a whole picture. I’m looking at the team.

I’m looking at their product and how they’re going to market and all these other things. And maybe in my corporate job, I was just like in this one little lane, but now I’m starting to think about it and broaden out a little bit. And I think that’s really a fascinating way to learn about something new and be able to incorporate it into your day to day. So all of those things are I find very rewarding parts of it. Now if you want me to tell a little bit about what’s not so rewarding Yeah.

Is there are definitely challenges in building companies. I mean, there are ups and downs that entrepreneurs have. If you, you know, if you are very, worried about, you know, the ups and downs part, then you probably just wanna read the quarterly newsletter and just see what’s going on, because sometimes they do have challenges, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re gonna give up. And that’s one thing I found about entrepreneurs. They will fight and they are very passionate about whatever they’re working on, and they will continue no matter what.

And I will say that probably one of the more frustrating things was what happened during the pandemic and how it affected so many, companies. A lot of them really, really struggled. Fortunately, you know, here in the US, and I know Canada did as well, like, stepped in and was able to help a lot of the companies. Some didn’t make it though. Some really thrived.

And then in the last 2 years, 2 to 3 years, the, investing market has just really dried up, and it’s been extremely difficult for entrepreneurs to raise money in 2022, 23, and even part of, you know, 24 now. It has been challenging. I am hoping with, you know, interest rates in the US lowering, there hopefully, the m and a market will start to open up again. We’ll start to see more acquisitions. They’ll there’ll be more liquidity.

I think all of those things could really help make a better environment for 2025, which is gonna make it easier for these entrepreneurs to fundraise.

 

Craig Asano:  Yeah. Absolutely. Not sure if you mentioned at the beginning, of the show, but how big is angel investing in the states? Is there a number?  You know, annually, how many billions are Invested, hundreds of millions or tens of millions?

 

Marcia Dawood:  Yeah. There are numbers. In fact, we put out a report of the SEC advocacy office Small Business Advocacy Office does put out a wonderful annual report. You can just go on to the sec.govwebsite, in the US and be able to pull a lot of different numbers. (see: https://www.sec.gov/files/2024-oasb-annual-forum-report.pdf)

But just to give you an idea, there’s roughly about 300,000 angel investors in the US. That’s a tiny, tiny fraction of the, obviously, the total US population. And we’ve determined, you know, through the Angel Capital Association data and some other data here in the US, that there’s probably, 16,000,000 households that could be what we determine to be an accredited investor, which means you have a certain level of wealth or income in order to make a private investment. You don’t have to be an accredited investor if you’re doing things like equity crowdfunding, but here in the US, that is a big a big deal if you’re gonna write an individual check for equity into a company. So 16,000,000 households, that’s a lot, and we only have 300,000 people participating.

So I really feel like we have a big awareness problem here because I’ll see founders all the time who are trying to raise money. And then I talk to some people that I know would you know, could potentially be interested in investing, and they say, well, I I can’t do that. I that’s only for, you know, rich people, well connected. You have to be, you know, flying in private planes and all these types of things, and that’s just not true anymore. Nowadays, if you’re interested in investing, there are ways that you can invest for as little as, you know, $50, a $100 in an equity crowdfunding campaign.

In my book, I talk about how you can invest with philanthropic dollars into a for profit company. It’s like there’s a couple steps involved, but it’s it can be done, and it can actually multiply then your charitable contributions. So there are a lot of ways that people can get involved. I think it’s just a matter of, you know, picking the thing that’s gonna resonate with them and then and then how they can help to contribute to the innovation they wanna see. Yeah.

 

Craig Asano:  It’s similar. All that that’s a great answer and perspective on it. And I know I’ve we’ve met a lot of investors that would qualify as accredited investors, but they’re not interested in taking those risks. Or maybe it’s the education and the opportunity to see how it could work. And I think that’s why the importance of relationship building and see how others are doing it, being strategic, taking time, you know, baby steps along the way.  So it it’s very sensible. Since, you mentioned it, the SEC Small Business Capital Formation Advisory Committee, if that’s exactly what it’s called.

 

Maria Dawood:  That’s what it’s called. It’s mouthful. So Yeah. I actually love the diversity of our committee. We’re really talking about small business capital formation. So how are we gonna get money so that small businesses can grow? And if you look at how many small businesses there are in the US, in Canada, in every country, they’re everywhere.

And how do we get them to be more sustainable to, you know, be able to for those startups that are scalable, the ones that we think are gonna, you know, be acquired or they’re gonna have what we call an exit where there’d be a liquidity event. Sure. There’s a lot of that, and we talk about capital formation for those companies. But what about the mom and pop, you know, main street type of companies? What if there’s a coffee shop or a dry cleaner that needs to get just a little bit of funding locally in order to get off the ground?

You know, there’s ways that we, talk about that too. We have a member of the committee, George Cook, who is, the founder of Honeycomb Credit, and that is a debt crowdfunding platform. And they work with coffee shops and the, you know, main street businesses all the time in order for them to be able to raise the capital they need, And then that isn’t an equity exchange. That’s actually just a debt instrument so that the person who’s investing gets paid back over time just like they would any other loan, with a little bit of interest, and that can really help that local business. But I what I think is so cool about it is if I can invest in the local coffee shop down the street and then I go as a customer, like, how cool is that that I’m helping them and I get to know them.

And now it’s just like building your local ecosystem so that, you know, everybody can thrive and everybody can win. In investing in your your local community, it’s it’s so critical that support. And how good does that feel? Right? It’s as you say, you would walk in and, you know, not to brag, but you’re more involved.  You’re that cup of coffee that you’re, you know, that maybe that debt instrument, your support, your financial voting with your dollars in your own community goes a long a long, long way. So hopefully some of that it sounds like some of that’s in the book, so we’re definitely looking forward to getting our copy. Women in funding, we have a stat here, that says they receive less than 3% of funding presumably in the US. I mean, this is a global problem, here in Canada, of course, as well. So why do you think today still after talking about it for so long, and many kicks at the can to move the needle to enable or democratize or allow more to make change?  You know, why is that disparity there? What do you think can be done to further improve it?

 

Marcia Dawood:  Yeah. So I’ll talk a little bit about the number, first of all, because we do talk about this 3%. You know, less than 3% goes to women, less than 1% goes to people of color.  And, you know, those numbers are out there. They’re and they’re obviously very bad. If you start to look at the numbers more from the angel perspective, at the Angel Capital Association, we’ve actually found that the angel numbers are a little bit better. We’re probably around 25% of the funding is going toward female founders. And when we talk about a female led company, at least in a lot of the groups that I’m in, we’re talking about a diverse team, but we’re we’d like to see a woman in the c suite with a significant portion of equity.  So these we’re not saying that these companies have to be all women. Right? So this we’re all about diversity and making sure that there are lots of voices and lots of, people at the table. But how do we change this? How do we get more funding?  That 3% percent number is, just to clarify, is more like a venture capital number, and there’s the venture capital dollars are obviously much, much, much bigger than what’s happening in the angel’s world. So we’re just kind of like the little piece of the pie that actually helps those early, early stage companies get to the point where they can take venture capital money. But, you know, for the most part, what we’re trying to do, you know, from a a as an investing standpoint is just help these companies with the money that, that they can get from either a fund or from the angel world and be able to, like, continue on in order to get toward an exit. But is it is there more that is it sort of an a pitch to the VCs that they need to back more, you know, different types of companies, or is it more on the investment side that, you know, there needs to be more female investors that can build that base of equity, that can feel, confident to take those risks to, you know, build an incredible career off of, investing, you know, wherever they might land.

 

Craig Asano:  Where really does the rubber hit the road? Because it seems that there’s always efforts, but every report, it’s it’s the same issue. And, you know, how how do we get there? Maybe what are the baby steps? Is it something the government needs to do?  Is it something that, through education, we need to democratize more participation? Like, what do you really think the number one, advice or message to move that needle into, and who is that message towards?

 

Marcia Dawood:  Yeah. I think you said it perfectly, democratizing the participation. If we wanna get more funding to women, to people of color, we’re going to have to get more people who look like them in the room writing checks and who are who will be able to support them.  And so we’ve seen, the numbers move a little bit, like I was saying, in Angel World, and I think it’s because we have been very thoughtful in a lot of the different angel groups and especially in the Angel Capital Association to be able to encourage more women to get involved as investors. And one of the things that I found and one of the reasons I wrote the book, I have the podcast, is I’m trying to get people to see themselves in this role as an investor. And sometimes that word investing can be, it can throw people a little bit. They might think, oh, investing. Like, if I’m gonna be an investor, I have to know all of these finance things.

I have to have a finance degree. I have to, you know, be able to make a financial decision that’s going to have this incredible outcome at the end. And if I don’t get that incredible outcome at the end, then, oh, outcome at the end. And if I don’t get that incredible outcome at the end, then, oh, I I will look like a bad investor. And that’s like, very, very traditional mindset from a long time ago.

 

And, you know, even as women, we have been socialized to men do investing. We do philanthropy. That’s a lot of what we see, especially here in the US. So, like, how do we change that? How do we get the awareness built up?

So because it’s now all kind of coming together. You know? Of course, we wanna help these nonprofit companies, but, they’re just a small portion of the overall innovation and things that are happening in the in the world. So how do we get more people to realize, like, you can be a part of this too. You have a voice, and that voice can help to fund the types of not just founders, but the companies that they’re building that can actually help those, different groups.

 

Craig Asano:  And how would those women who would be new to investing do would you advise to get involved? Would it be maybe having a look at some of the angel investing groups become a member, as you got your original footing? Would it be to check out the equity crowdfunding platforms and take a look and start to ask some questions and build a relationship with the founders and, see what resonates? Is it at that ground level that these changes have to be made to be transformative?

 

Marcia Dawood:  That’s where it has to. They have to feel the passion and the willingness to, you know, ride the volatility and take those risks, but yet at the same time feel they’re doing you know, they’re getting this incredible, like, positive experience making change.

 

Craig Asano:  This is really a lot of what your book is talking about, so maybe we can jump into there, the do good while doing sort of well. And, you know, I have a question here around what does it mean, doing good through their investments and, you know, on route to becoming happy but at the same time, you know, having it’s not philanthropy, it’s something different. So how would you summarize the book and your thoughts for anyone who just might be reading it, what can they expect to get out of it?

 

Marcia Dawood:  Yeah. So, I mean, doing good, a lot of times, can lead people to think about charity. We’re gonna volunteer for charity. We’re gonna donate to charity. And like I said, doing that is wonderful.  But here in the US, for example, $475,000,000,000 is donated to charities annually here in the US. But that’s only about 1% of the equivalent of only about 1% of the US stock market. So, if you’re thinking about nonprofits and the burden that is being placed on them to do these big things, like cure diseases and cure our planet or all of those things. Those are a lot that’s a lot of pressure to put on, nonprofits. So how do we think about doing good and doing well?

 

So, doing well used to always be, oh, well, I’m gonna have a retirement account. I’m going to invest in stocks or bonds or mutual funds or whatever they’re gonna do so that we can get a financial return. But you can have both of those. You can invest in the things that you care about and be able to get a financial return at the same time. Now, again, this is a risky asset class.

We’ve talked about that before, but that’s why you do things like diversify your portfolio. You get involved in various ways there, and in the book, I go through many examples of this. And the other thing, I I got to a point when, even after writing the book and having some early readers go through it, they said, hey, we really like the exercises. I have a couple of exercises in the book. They said, we really like the exercises because they help us, like, really think about and walk us through, like, what we would do or how we would do it.

Or one person who really would love the idea of going to join an angel group like you just, gave that, example of, that person might love that, and another person might hate that, and they might think, oh, well, I’d much rather go on to an equity crowdfunding site and look online. Perfectly fine. There’s lots and lots of options for everyone, which is why I ended up writing a workbook to go with the book that has even more exercises and kind of step by step and walking people through, hey, this is what this really looks like. And if you wanna try something, you can kind of try it in a way in the workbook with before you actually have to go invest any money or invest any time. It’s just a way to get started and get thinking about it before you would actually go do something.

So the book gives them that background. It gives them the information. It dispels some of the myths. It even has that strategic, workbook approach where, you know, it’s getting them to think about their own situation and sort of meet face to face, which kinda scares a lot of people. They’re talking about money.  They’re talking about investing their own money. And so that at the end of that book, the next step would be, hey. There’s the Angel Association. Let’s say, the ACA in the US or whatever they feel comfortable with. At that point, they would feel more, ex armed with a bit more knowledge, so they’re ready to ask more targeted questions to to get involved and participate.

 

Craig Asano:  So I think it’s fantastic. I mean, the thing about, you know, the book who would you say it’s targeting? Who did you write the book for? I now have some understanding of why you wrote the book.  The passion for change and wanting to make that difference but who from your feedback so far from readers…who is it targeted for, and what has your response been since you since you launched it?

 

Marcia Dawood:  Yeah. I wrote the book for people who wanna make a difference but really don’t know how one person alone can do that because I know I felt like that. I felt like, well, you know, I heard that I hear that saying, be the change you wanna see in the world. And I think, yeah.  I’m up for that. I wanna be the change. Wait a minute. How do I do that? How can I how can I make a difference as one person?  And you can make a difference, and it does require a lot of us, one people, one person, to make that kind of a difference. Right? So that’s really who I wrote the book for, and the response has been really wonderful. I’m you know, people have told me over and over again, you know, even people who are already in the angel space, have told me, you know, I really learned I learned stuff that I didn’t realize. I kind of feel like because I did move around a lot and I I was involved in different groups, I I was the person who was like, oh, that looks like a cool model.

That looks like a cool way to invest. Let me try it, which probably isn’t the best strategy when you don’t really know what you’re doing. Like, I don’t I don’t recommend that. And that’s really why I wrote the book, but that was my, that was my learning process. And I really did like trying out all the things, and I thought, well, I tried out all these things.  Maybe I should actually tell people about it so that they don’t make some of the mistakes that I made. And so I think I wrote the book for, like, the me in 2012. I wish in 2012 somebody had handed me this book and said, hey, here’s all the things. Now, in 2012, all of these things didn’t necessarily exist because some of the rules that have changed in order to allow some of these things have happened since 2012. But, but, yeah, that’s, like, that’s really who I’m targeting.

And, you know, I had a friend of mine who read the book recently, and she said, you know, I this isn’t really my topic. You know, I knew it was about investing, and I yeah, whatever. She’s like, but then it was your book, and you you’re my friend, so I’m gonna read it. And I then she says, but he I really liked it. And I thought, okay. Well, good. You know? So she, you know, she got a lot out of it even though at first, she was kinda like, I’m not really an investing person, but now I understand what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to demystify all of the things that are out there about what we think about, what we think is actually going to be, the way that we have to invest, and that’s just not the case anymore. We have so many options.

 

Craig Asano:  Fantastic. And how do how do folks get that book? Is it in all the bookstores? How do they get it?

 

Marcia Dawood:  It’s in the bookstores.  You can get it on Amazon, US and Amazon CA. It can you can go to my website and order it directly from the publisher. Lots of lots of options.

 

Craig Asano:  K. Perfect.

 

Yeah. No. I I’m excited to read it. I mean, I would have thought I would have read it prior to the podcast, but we’ll do that after. Still definitely looking forward to it, and I might pen some thoughts post read and connect them into the show notes here, along with the rap battle.  The rap battle’s a must. We gotta pull the rap battle together. You know, moving to the next topic around angel investing and and technology, I mean, a lot of the education that NCFA, provides is really around a lot of the new tech innovations and the impact and the implications not just for from an entrepreneur’s perspective, but also for investors. So, from your perspective, obviously, AI has exploded on the scene, and it’s proliferating and having significant impact already just after sort of hitting the market in a couple years, and it seems to be changing daily. You know, we try to track as much as we can.  The blockchain space as well, the tokenization.  How do you see some of these technologies transforming, sort of investing broadly, or maybe specifically to angel investing? I know there’s a lot happening, but I’d love to hear your thoughts.

 

Marcia Dawood:  Yeah. In fact, we talked about this quite a lot. We had a oh, every year, we have a women’s investor forum through the Angel Capital Association that I host in Boston.  And the last 2 years, we’ve talked a lot about AI, especially from the standpoint of and things with the blockchain. All of these kind of technologies are coming out, and we’re thinking to ourselves, okay. We are seeing companies who have, you know, some component of this in their business model. And we, as angels, are worried about how do we even evaluate a company like this. Because in some cases, the technology is changing so fast that we’re not even sure how to really do that and what we’ve learned from some of the experts out there is that, looking at the company and the problem that the company is solving as a whole and take the technology out of it for a minute to really see is that something that’s sustainable, is that something that’s needed, and don’t get so caught up in the shiny object of the tech, and the AI piece. That’s been really helpful to me personally as an investor anyway because I feel like I was feeling a little kind of overwhelmed at how many companies are out there right now doing really cool innovative things, especially with AI. But I was really struggling about how am I going to evaluate that and what would it mean for me as an investor. And so I think taking that lens back and kind of, you know, looking at it a little bit differently and going back to some of the basics of diligence and how you look at a company, that to me made a lot of sense. And so I feel a little bit better now when I do see companies like that.

 

Craig Asano:  Yeah. The it it’s sort of like a Warren Buffett back to basics. And Yeah. If the fundamentals aren’t there and you don’t understand it, walk away. And so I I think there’s a lot of hype and a lot of companies, and they are solving a lot of efficiencies or inefficiency gaps, but, will they be here tomorrow as the landscape is completely changing?  And so, or is it a cash grab or is it a real business? And so that you know, that’s it’s certainly interesting to hear. Angel investing, the 300,000 angels that are in the US and, you know, far fewer here in in Canada, but where do you see the angel investing in the future? Is it growing? You know, we’re sitting here in 2024.  Let’s have a look at where do you think it’ll be in 5 years, or where do you think it’ll be in in 10 years from today?

 

Marcia Dawood:   Yeah, well, what I’m really hoping, and I do talk about it in the book, and then I literally just had a podcast episode not too long ago with the, CEO of republic.com, which is a equity crowdfunding platform here in the US, and they’re a global platform too. But I really believe that we will start to see a democratization of the private markets. So if you think about how difficult it was to buy a public stock back in the eighties nineties, the fees were very high.  You had to have, you know, a brokerage account in a certain way and have it funded with a lot of money before you could even buy. Think about buying a public stock. It took a long time. Nowadays, you can go on to E Trade or Robinhood or any online, platform, brokerage platform, and you can trade for free in seconds. So, wow, what a difference, you know, a couple decades make.  I think we’re gonna because of the speed of technology and advancement, I think we’re gonna start to see that in the private markets too, more and more over the next 2, 5, 10 years. I really believe that you’re gonna start to see more people getting involved because they’re realizing they can. The yeah. They can, and there’s more tools to evaluate. There there’s more sort of opportunity to get access to deals that would otherwise, let’s say, 5, 10 years ago, be limited to a small group that didn’t wanna share that opportunity, didn’t wanna talk about that deal.

 

Craig Asano:  So it’s certainly and then all the the democratization from the diversity perspective, others that, you know, the I know there’s an accredited investor threshold, but retail investors or near credit investors, they’re looking to generate some wealth. They’re looking to have some impact. And so this whole angel investing as an individual, not as a fund approach, is explosive in terms of its potential. And so, I think that’s spot on.  The democratization of private markets, and we see that. I mean, a lot of companies are, hesitant now to go public or certainly delaying their going public.  There’s been hardly any IPOs here in in Canada for some time, and so hopefully, overall, the folks will strike the right balance just to enable enough capital from all channels to support the company so we can continue to do what we do. But, super interesting for sure. I mean, an interesting question here around, you know, as we I do recognize the time. We’re getting nearer to the end, but if you could give yourself, one piece of advice when you first got into angel advice in angel investing, and I think this this sort of dovetails well into your book and others that might be contemplating making that investment, you know, through whatever channel. What would that piece of advice be to someone to yourself just getting into the game?

 

Marcia Dawood:  Yeah. Just take your time. Look around. Look at what’s out there. Go to a local event in your in your neighborhood, in your community.  Find out you can literally just go search online for start up events in, and then you could just fill in your city or town. And there are things going on everywhere, and just start to get to know people. Start to get to know what’s going on near you. And then you can look at there’s a lot of things online you can look at too, but just take your time. Get started. Just find out what interests you and kind of see where that leads you as opposed to thinking, oh my gosh. I have to go and do this, and I have to write all these big checks and things like that. Like, don’t get overwhelmed by the details. Just get started.

 

Craig Asano:  Good advice.  Do you have any inclination to launch your own venture fund for women? It it’s sort of a I only say that because it’s sort of what’s next for Marcia? We’re talking a little bit about the future of angel investing and private markets, but what about Marcia? You’re very accomplished.  You’re doing all these things. You love it. What what’s next for you?

 

Marcia Dawood:  Well, that’s what Mindshift Capital is. We are an investment firm that invests in women led companies globally.  And, you know, so we have a fund and, we’re deploying capital. And to me, funds are really one of the best ways that people can get involved because you instantly get a diversified portfolio. And I really love that, about funds. So for me, helping people get connected to the things that they care about and the things that they want to invest in.  The people that they wanna meet. You know, I’m hoping that that’s what the book will do.  It will inspire people to go out and find out what’s going on in their local community, get connected to people that have the same interests that they do. You know, for me, personally, I have an interest in anybody who’s working on something related to curing ALS because my mother passed from that disease back in 2018. So, you know, connecting with other people or connecting with companies that are trying to work on a treatment or a cure for something like that, you know, that’s how that’s how all of these things get started. So I love to see people just going after the things that they care about and, you know, who they meet and how they do it along the way is great.

 

Craig Asano:  Fantastic.  Well, you connected with someone today about ALS, and that’s me. My grandfather passed for the same disease, and so it was a very quick thing that happened. And before you know it, several months just a few months after being diagnosed, he had passed. So, I get it. I get it.  So we’re on to the start wrapping up the podcast here, we’d like to do this rapid fire questions just for fun. So we’re expecting, you know, short, snappy answers here for some rapid fire questions. Are you ready to go? Ready to go.

 

Marcia Dawood:  Okay.

 

Craig Asano:  So in a in a word, what do you think the greatest opportunity in angel investing is today?

 

Marcia Dawood:  Options. People have options, and I don’t think there were nearly as many options in the past. So I’m really excited about all the options that people have today. Options.

 

Craig Asano:  So the folks listening to the podcast, you gotta take one of those options and run with it or take it slow. Up to up to you, but there are options. So that’s definitely a good thing. So next question. If you could have dinner sort of or get together with any influential figure, who would it be and why?

 

Marcia Dawood:  Yeah. I love this question because I think it ebbs and flows. You know? One minute, it could be one thing. One minute, it could be another.  Right now, because of the book and my podcast and everything, I am truly fascinated at people’s relationship to money, and I really love all of the work that, Ramit Sethi has done in order to bring about this awareness of money. How do you feel about money? How are you gonna make money? And that’s a topic that I think is kind of another next step back to your earlier question of what I wanna start exploring. Like, how can I don’t know that we can get as many people on the playing field for angel investing as we could until we start to talk about that money thing?

 

Craig Asano:  So I would love to sit and have a conversation with him. That’s for sure. The, yeah, the taboo of money and the topic of it.  It’s pervasive. It’s there. Next question.  What’s the most surprising thing you’ve learned on your journey as an investor?

 

Marcia Dawood:  So I that’s a toughie because, I mean, I’m always I’m surprised a lot of times by a lot of different things. And then in other cases, you’re not surprised. Right? But, I guess I would say that sometimes I just am fascinated at what these entrepreneurs are working on.  I sometimes they come up with these ideas that I would have never even thought this could possibly exist, and I’m just so in awe of those visionaries. I’m more of, like, an operations kind of person, so, I just love hearing the stories and all the things that they’re coming up with. Just the innovation.

 

Craig Asano:  Yeah. It’s so exciting.  Last question for rapid fire. What is one myth in angel investing that you you’d like to debunk?

 

Marcia Dawood:  That you have to be rich. You know, so often, I’ve heard people say, well, you know, I’ve seen shows on TV, and, like, they fly in private planes, and, you know, they have 1,000,000,000 of dollars. I would have to have 1,000,000,000 of dollars in order to be an investor, and that, you know, simply is not true.  So just being able to get people to think about investing in an early stage company a little differently, that’s what’s gonna start to change the game.

 

Craig Asano:  Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.  This has been incredible, Marcia I really want to, thank you for spending the time sharing your knowledge. You, as we mentioned many times, you’re very accomplished. We’re excited to follow your continued journey on what’s next for you, and you’re, of course, welcome, back anytime on the show. How do folks get in touch with you if they wanna follow-up or learn more?  And, you know, maybe one last message about that that book, and then we’ll get down to the wrap up here.

 

Marcia Dawood:  Sure. So, they can find me at my website. It’s just my name, marciadawood.com. There’s lots of resources on there.  I do have a podcast web page that does have playlists. So, for example, if you’re interested in learning more about equity crowdfunding or I’ve had a couple people on talking about AI, for example, that’s all in there, and you can just click on, like, AI or equity crowdfunding, whatever it is, and it’ll pull up whatever episodes are related to that. So, and plus, of course, there’s always lots of book resources as well.

 

Craig Asano:  I love the interest in in equity crowdfunding, of course, at NCFA we have been involved in grassroots for many, many years, and it continues to grow.  We are still are in contact with a lot of those relationships with the guys in the US, the folks in the US that have spent many, many years democratizing, tracking the data. Of course, Republic and their evolution to, you know, become not just the original model of equity crowdfunding, but these new tokenized global platforms and liquidity pools. So super exciting for sure. I’m sure we could cover off a lot more topics, but, yeah. So thanks so much for sharing your valuable time with us, Marcia.

It’s been great. And just to wrap up the podcast, folks, if you are new to Fintech Fridays here, please check out some of the incredible past episodes. I think you will be surprised with what you find, and we look forward to seeing you, next Friday for another episode of Fintech Friday. So have a good weekend, and thanks a lot, Marcia for joining us today. We’ll certainly talk to you soon.

 

Marcia Dawood:  Thanks so much for having me. It’s a pleasure.

 

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